‘All God’s Children’?
The contemporary challenge for the Abrahamic faiths
The Keene Lectures at Chelmsford Cathedral
November 2005
The attack on the World Trade Centre on 9/11 2001 and the London bombings of 7July this year have concentrated our minds on the tensions inherent in people of conflicting and mutually-exclusive ideologies sharing the same small planet.
For our Keene Lectures we invited representatives of the three world religions that claim Abraham as their ancestor – Judaism, Islam and Christianity – to explore the challenge that confronts us. While not going as far as dialogue (for each lecture was complete in itself) we hope that this exercise in hospitality and good listening will signal our desire to appreciate and understand one another’s faith and world-view, heal some diseases of past and present, and build a better future.
For the first lecture, on Wednesday 9 November, we welcomed Rabbi Professor Dan Cohn-Sherbok, Professor of Judaism at the University of Wales at Lampeter, to give a Jewish perspective.
Andrew Knowles
Canon Theologian
Chelmsford Cathedral
November 2005
Jews, Arabs and Christian Zionism
Through the centuries, Jews,
Christians and Muslims co-existed, at times with a degree of
tolerance. Yet, for nearly 2000 years there has been intense rivalry
between the three great monotheistic traditions. Today, the situation
has entirely changed as a result of the creation of the State of
Israel. Throughout the Arab world, Jewry is castigated for its
support of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East, whereas
Christian-Jewish encounter and dialogue is widely encouraged. The
Middle East conflict has brought about a complete realignment of
political and religious allegiances. This has had a profound impact
on American policy toward world affairs. Tonight I want to turn my
attention to the emergence of Christian Zionism and its support of
Israel as well as its demonization of Islam.
Currently
millions of Christian Zionists worldwide pray for the rapture of
righteous Christians and the end of the world. They are committed to
the return of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland. This, they
believe, will be the fulfilment of biblical prophecy. When God's
people Israel return to the Holy Land to establish their own state,
everything will be in order for the countdown to the end of history.
Although from a secular perspective, these beliefs appear incredible,
large numbers of dedicated Christians Zionists, often of a
fundamentalist background, are convinced that God's plans for
humanity are being fulfilled. For these individuals, such a
millennarian eschatology provides a framework for understanding
current events in the Middle East.
Throughout the United
States and elsewhere, popular ministers preach Christian Zionist
theology, and polls indicate an increasingly large number of
Christians accept such a view. A l984 Yankelovich poll, for example,
showed that 39 percent of the American people said that when the
Bible speaks of the earth being destroyed by fire, this meant that we
ourselves will destroy the earth in a nuclear Armageddon. Popular
preachers not only draw huge audiences, but also raise large amounts
of money such as Pat Robertson who built the Christian Broadcasting
Network in Virginia Beach, which annually collects up to $97
million in clear, tax free profit. Within the CBN, he also founded
the Family Channel, the nation's seventh largest cable network,
featuring Robertson's show, the 700 Club. In l997 Robertson sold the
Family Channel to Fox Television for $l.9 billion.
Books
dealing with Christian Zionist aspirations are best sellers, such as
Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth which has sold more than 25
million copies. In the late l990s evangelist Tim LaHaye's Left Behind
Series of books dealing with the rapture of Born Again Christians
sold nearly three million copies. The Dallas Theological Seminary,
the most influential seminary teaching Christian Zionism, graduated
many of the pastors now preaching Christian Zionism in nearly l,000
Bible Churches. The popularity of Christian Zionism extends from
ordinary believers to the highest level of government. The former
Secretary of Defence Casper Weinberger, for example, remarked in l982
concerning Armageddon: 'I have read the Book of Revelation and yes, I
believe the world is going to end by an act of God, I
hope—but
everyday I think that time is running out.' (l)
In a
recent study of American Christian Zionism, Grace Halsell
characterized this movement as follows:
There's a new
religious cult in America. It's not composed of so-called 'crazies'
so much as the mainstream, middle to uppermiddle class Americans.
They listen--and give millions of dollars each week--to the TV
evangelists who expound the fundamentals of the cult. They read Hal
Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. They have one goal: to facilitate God's hand
to waft them up to heaven free from all trouble, from where they will
watch Armageddon and the destruction of Planet Earth. This doctrine
pervades Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, and other charismatic
churches, as well as Southern Baptist, independent Baptist, and
countless so-called Bible churches and mega-churches. At least one
out of every ten Americans is a devoted member of this cult. It is
the fastest growing religious movement in Christianity today.
(2)
Christian Zionism, however, is not a new development. In
the first half of the l9th century, Christian thinkers came to view
the return of the Jewish people as inaugurating the end of the world
in which humanity would endure terrible sufferings. Beginning with
the writings of Edward Irving, premillennial dispensationalism came
to influence a wide range of thinkers. Like Irving, John Nelson Darby
rejected the optimism of earlier theologians. Concerned with current
events, Darby employed the term dispensationalism to refer to a
series of failed attempts by humanity to find acceptance with God. In
Darby's opinion, the Church was only one more dispensation that had
failed, and only a small remnant will be saved.
According
to Darby, there could be no future earthly hope for the Church, and
it will soon be replaced in God's purposes by Israel. The promises
made to the Jewish people, he believed, were unfulfilled and would
find their eventual consummation in the reign of Jesus Christ on
earth during the millennium. This eschatological scheme served as the
foundation for later dispensational doctrines in which the Church was
understood as a parenthesis to God's continuing covenant relationship
with the Jewish nation. In Darby's view, the Jews will serve as the
primary instrument of God's rule on earth during the millennium. The
Jews, he believed, will rule on earth in league with Satan, but a
remnant of the Jews will be delivered and the Antichrist destroyed.
For Darby, there will be two stages to Christ's return. First,
believing Christians will be raptured and meet Christ in the air.
This Rapture will then be followed by seven years of Tribulation;
this will end when Jesus will return to Jerusalem to set up his
kingdom.
Such a framework served as the basis for later
Christian Zionist speculation about the end of the world. Pre-eminent
among Christian Zionists, Hal Lindsey is the author of over 20 books
in which he has propounded a dispensational view of the future
drawing on previous premillennialist theology. Lindsey's most famous
work, the Late Great Planet Earth was a best seller, and has
profoundly influenced the direction of premillennialist thought.
Since its publication in l970, its sales have continued and his views
remain popular amongst a wide circle of readers. Like Darby, he
claimed on the basis of the Bible, he is able to determine future
events, and like Darby, he believed that his interpretations were
revealed by God. In the l980s with the election of Ronald Reagan,
Lindsey along with leading evangelists were included in White House
Seminars.
Similar to dispensationalists, Lindsey adopts a
literalist approach to Scripture. Like Darby, he interpreted
references to the Hebrew Bible as applying to contemporary events.
Throughout his writings, he asserts that the earth is in danger of
destruction. According to Lindsey, the battle of Armageddon is
unavoidable. Only by believing in Jesus, he argues, can the
faithful be raptured and avoid the global holocaust which is coming.
Today, he contends, there is no hope or purpose other than escaping
the period of Tribulation:
You won't find another book quite
like this one. We will examine why and how the world is hurtling
toward disaster. (3)
In presenting his predictions, he is
sympathetic to Israel. Like other dispensationalists, he argues that
the promises, blessings and protection made to Abraham are eternal.
Today, he maintains, the State of Israel is the beneficiary:
There
has been much infidelity in Jewish history, and their present
worldwide dispersion and persecution have been their divine
discipline. However, God made unconditional promises of eternal
blessings to the Jewish patriarchs and will someday restore the Jews
to a position of special favour with Himself. God has promised never
to abandon his chosen people, no matter how despicably they treat
him. (Romans ll:l,2). The divine hand of protection of the Jews
during the recent Six Day War was just a token of that protective
care. (4)
For Lindsey, God will not forsake the Israelis, nor
let them be destroyed. All other nations will receive blessings
through Israel. Such biblical prophecies demand a national
restoration of the Jewish people. Nonetheless, Lindsey believes that
many Israelis will suffer and die in the nuclear war of Armageddon.
Yet, Lindsey argues that in line with other dispensationalists that
the Church will be replaced by Israel as the people of God on
earth:
At some point in history--very soon I believe--God's
special focus and blessing is going to shift back to the Jews. At
that moment, the Jews will once again be responsible, as God's
representatives, to take His message to the whole world. This
mission--incomplete and seemingly impossible for the last 2,000
years--will be accomplished by the l44,000 Jewish Billy Grahams in
seven years. (5)
Within this framework, Lindsey insists that
the settlement and integration of the Occupied Territories in Israel
is essential to maintain the promise made to Abraham. Further, the
occupation of Jerusalem is of fundamental significance--it signifies
the return of the Messiah. Eventually, he argues, Jerusalem will
become the spiritual centre of the entire world: all peoples will
come there to worship Jesus who will rule from Jerusalem. In this
connection, he insists that the Jewish Temple must also be rebuilt.
Many prophecies demand the rebuilding of the ancient Temple, he
believes, indicating that the event is a significant prophetic
sign.
In this context, Lindsey is
deeply antagonistic to Muslim states that seek to destroy Israel.
America, however, is perceived as Israel's strongest ally. Yet,
despite this role, Lindsey like other Christian Zionists, is
convinced that a holocaust is inevitable:
And look what's
happening in the Middle East--ground zero in end-time events...This
phoney peace deal in the Middle East thus only ensures that
eventually there will be a thermonuclear holocaust in the Middle
East. (6)
In the Late Great Planet Earth, Lindsey described
what the war will be like:
The armies of all nations will be
gathered in the area of Israel, especially around Jerusalem. Think of
it: at least 200 million soldiers from the Orient, with millions more
from the forces of the West...Messiah Jesus will first strike those
who have ravaged His city, Jerusalem.
Then he will strike the
armies amassed in the Valley of Meggido. No wonder blood will stand
to the horses' bridles from a distance of two hundred miles from
Jerusalem. (7)
Despite such disaster, Christians who embrace a
dispensational theology will be raptured to heaven just before
Tribulation begins. Believers will in this way escape the coming
holocaust and witness these terrible events from the heavenly
heights. In Lindsey's view, God will supernaturally deliver l44,000
Jews to serve as his evangelists.
This picture of the final
days is graphically portrayed in a series of novels by Tim LaHaye.
Along with Lindsey, LaHaye has become a successful populizer of
premillennial
dispensationalism. Implicit in his works is a fatalistic view of the
future. LaHaye's mission has been to gain support for the political
agenda of the religious right. Beginning with Left Behind, they
depict the period of Tribulation and the final Armageddon. In the
final novel, Glorious Appearing, believers look to heaven for the
appearance of Christ who will return and rule over all the
world.
Such theological views have had a profound impact on
the Christian right. Today, it is the most prevalent form of
Christian Zionism with millions of followers world-wide. A variety of
authors and preachers have predicted that an evil global empire will
emerge under the leadership of a mysterious world leader, the
Antichrist, attack Israel, and eventually there will be a climactic
Battle of Armageddon. In the view of these believers, after seven
years of Tribulation Jesus will return as the Jewish Messiah and king
to reign in Jerusalem for a thousand years. In this scheme the Jewish
people will enjoy a privileged status and role in history. When
Israel captured Jerusalem and the West Bank plus the Gaza Strip and
the Golan Heights in l967, many Christian Zionists believed that the
latter days were imminent, and in their support of Israel sought to
hasten the coming of the Messiah who would usher in a new age of
fulfilment and glory.
In the light of this theological
perspective, the Arab world has been regarded with suspicion.
Typically among Christian Zionists, Jan van der Hoeven of the
International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem castigated the Arab
community for its anti-Zionist attitudes:
The
greatest hero (in the Arab world) is Hitler...Hitler's Mein Kampf is
still required reading in various Arab capitals and
universities...The only reason that the Arabs have not yet done to
the Israeli Jews what Hitler did to their forefathers in Europe is
that they have thus far lacked the military means and weapons of mass
destruction which were at Hitler's disposal, to do so. Had there not
been an Israeli Defence Force to defend the remnant of European Jewry
that immigrated to Israel, the Arabs would have gladly fulfilled
Hitler's dream a long time ago by finishing off those of the Jews the
Nazi megalomaniac had left alive. (8)
Similarly Hal Lindsey
castigated the Arab world for its offensive against Israel:
Long
ago the psalmist predicted the final mad attempt of the confederated
Arab armies to destroy the nation of Israel. The Palestinians are
determined to trouble the world until they repossess what they feel
is their land. (9)
For some Christian Zionists, Yasser Arafat
was perceived as the Antichrist. In February l999, Arafat was invited
to attend the 47th annual Congress sponsored national
Prayer Breakfast in Washington. Regarding this event, the
International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem declared that attending
the breakfast with Arafat would be like praying with Satan himself.
Respecting Palestinian claims to the Holy Land, Christian Zionists
are anxious to counter the arguments of those who support the
Palestinian cause. Ramon Bennett, for example, denied that there ever
was a Palestinian people:
Central to
the Middle East conflict today is the issue of the so-called
Palestinian people...Palestinians? There never was a Palestinian
people, nation, language, culture, or religion. The claim of descent
from a Palestinian people who lived for thousands of years in a land
called Palestine is a hoax! That land was Canaan, inhabited by
Canaanites, whom God destroyed because of their wickedness. Canaan
became the land of Israel given by God to His people. Those who today
call themselves Palestinians are Arabs by birth, language, and
culture, and are close relatives to Arabs in surrounding countries
from whence most of them came, attracted by Israel's prosperity.
(l0)
Frequently Islam is also demonized, particularly after
the events of ll September, 200l. Various authors have described
America's war against Islamic terrorism following this event. Hal
Lindsey's writings, for example, are characterized by Arab negative
stereotypes:
All Muslims see Israel as their enemy...The Arab
nations are united in their fanatical obsession to destroy Israel...
Agreements in the Arab nations don't mean the same thing they mean in
the Judeo-Christian world. Islam not only has a track record of
re-interpreting, denouncing and reversing settlements, such actions
are actually encouraged if they further the cause of Allah...The
movement seeks not only to destroy the State of Israel but also the
overthrow of the Judeo-Christian cuture--the very foundation of our
western civilisation. (ll)
In February 2002 Pat Robertson
described Islam as a violent religion determined to dominate the
world. In his view, American Muslims had formed terrorist cells in
order to destroy the United States. On the Christian Broadcasting
Network's 700 Club, he alleged that Islam is not a peaceful religion.
In this light, Christian Zionists oppose Palestinian aspirations to
self-determination. Not surprisingly, a number of Christian Zionists
are critical of the peace process since it threatens to legitimize
Palestinian claims to Jerusalem and other parts of Israel.
While
demonizing Islam, Christian Zionists have sanctioned the relationship
between Israel and the United States. Continually they take the side
of Israel in its negotiations with the Arab world, and recognize that
they share a common war against Islamic terrorism. Israel has the
right, they believe, to live securely within expanded borders of the
Jewish state. In their view God has granted sovereignty to his people
to rule exclusively over the land that was promised to the
patriarchs. Many of these Christian believers are convinced that
there will eventually be an apocalyptic war between God and evil in
the near future. As a consequence, there can be no peace between Jews
and Arabs.
Critical of such an uncompromising stance,
Palestinians have been anxious to repudiate the claims made against
them. Typical of such reactions is the response by Jonathan Kuttab, a
Palestinian Christian in a speech to the International Sabeel
Conference of April, 2004:
Palestinian Christians have
suffered much at the hand of theologies and interpretations of
scripture that provided a mantle of divine legitimisation to the
ideology of Zionism and the political movement that worked for their
displacement from their homeland, and built a Jewish state on the
basis of their exile, and oppression. One of our constant complaints
was that Christian Zionism ignores our national rights. The creation
of the state of Israel was done on our land and the ingathering of
Jews from all the world came at the price of exiling and scattering
our people throughout the world. All this was supported by Christian
theologies that ignored or delegitimized us as a people, claiming a
divine imperative based on scripture for the creation of the state of
Israel. (l2)
Alongside such criticism, a number of Christian
scholars have been anxious to illustrate that Christian Zionism does
not correspond to traditional Christian teaching. Pre-eminent among
such writers, Stephen Sizer outlines a number of objections to its
central characteristics:
l. A literalist and futurist reading
of prophecy is the foundation upon which the other six tenets are
based. However... this method of interpretation is no more consistent
or free of presuppositional influence than any other, and is at times
inconsistent, contradictory and arbitrary.
2. A belief that
the Jews remain God's chosen people, and separate from the church,
flows from this literalist hermeneutic. While covenantal and
dispensational Christian Zionists view the relationship between the
church and Israel somewhat differently, the consequences of both are
essentially the same: Israel is elevated to a status above the
church; for dispensationalists at least, Israel will replace the
church on earth, while Christians, and indeed whole nations, will be
blessed through their association with, and support of Israel. This
view is entirely at variance with the New Testament which
universalizes the concept of the people of God and makes chosenness
conditional on faith in Jesus Christ.
3. Belief in a final
restoration of the Jews to Zion is also based on a literal and
futurist reading of selective Old Testament prophecies. However, the
texts themselves indicate that such a return occurred under Ezra and
Nehemiah and that no further return is to be anticipated. It may be
argued that Jesus repudiated any such expectation.
4. It is
also an article of faith that Eretz or greater Israel, extending from
the River of Egypt to the Euphrates, is the Jewish inheritance
originally promised unconditionally to Abraham and his descendants
for ever. The progressive revelation of Scripture shows that such
promises were actually conditional and, from a New Testament
perspective, have been universalized to embrace the entire
cosmos.
5. Jerusalem, or Zion, lies at the heart of Christian
Zionism. The city is seen as the eternal, undivided and exclusive
Jewish capital. Nothing in the New Testament, however, substantiates
this claim. Instead Christians are called to break with any
dependency upon an earthly city and by faith to recognize that they
are already citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem.
6. Many
Christian Zionists believe the Temple must be rebuilt and sacrifices
re-instituted in order that it can be desecrated by the Antichrist
before Jesus returns. The New Testament is emphatic that after the
death of Jesus, the Temple, priestly caste and sacrificial system
became obsolete and their perpetuation apostate.
7. For
virtually all Christian Zionists, the immediate future is
intrinsically pessimistic. The final battle will, they claim, lead to
the death of two-thirds of the Jewish people before Jesus returns to
save a remnant. He will judge the world on the basis of how the
nations have treated the Jews. Christian Zionism's particular reading
of history and contemporary events, sustained by the dubious exegesis
of selective biblical texts, sets Israel and the Jewish people apart
from other peoples in the Middle East. In so doing, it undermines all
attempts to find a solution to the Middle East
conflict.
(l3)
In Israel itself, Palestinian Christians have also been
determined to refute the claims made by Christian Zionists. At the
2004 conference of opponents to Christian Zionism convened by the
Palestinian Christian Sabeel Centre, a press statement was made which
alleged that Christian Zionism is detrimental to a just peace in the
Holy Land. A conference document attached to the press release
claimed:
In its extreme form (Christian Zionism) places an
emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather
than living Christ's love and justice today...We categorically reject
Christian Zionist doctrines as false teaching that undermines the
biblical message of love, mercy and justice... We reject the
heretical teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support
(Israel and US) extremist policies as they advance a form of racial
exclusivity and perpetual war rather than the gospel of universal
love, redemption and reconciliation taught by Jesus Christ.
(l4)
Determined to refute such charges, Christian Zionists
claim that their views are based on biblical principles and promises,
which are backed up by biblical prophecies and New Testament truths.
Their position, they believe, looks beyond the evolving concerns of
political Zionism and views both the Jewish people and the land of
Israel as chosen by God for the purpose of redeeming the world.
Whatever one makes of this debate, there is no doubt that Christian
Zionism poses a serious threat to Jewish-Christian-Muslim relations
in the modern world. As we have seen, a troubling alliance has
emerged between the Christian Right and Jewish Zionists who for very
different reasons committed to the establishment of a Jewish
commonwealth in the Holy Land. In formulating their theology,
Christian premillennial dispensationalists have focused on the
necessity for a Jewish return to their ancestral home prior to the
unfolding of God's providential plan. In their view, we are living in
the end times, on the threshold of a holocaust which will engulf the
world. These are the last days of the Planet Earth, and humanity will
soon witness a cataclysmic end to history prior to the arrival of
Christ. Allied with this conception of the end times is an
undercurrent of hostility toward the Arab world, which is frequently
portrayed as a demonic realm of evil. This dark vision of the future
constitutes a major challenge to our three faiths as we stand on the
threshold of a new century.
(l) Grace Halsell, Forcing God's
Hand, Amana Publications, 2003, pp. 9-l0
(2) Ibid., p. 5
(3)
Hal Lindsey, The Final Battle, Palos Verdes, California, Wentern
Front, l995, p. xxi
(4) Hal Lindsey, There's a New World
Coming, A Prophetic Odyssey, Santa Ana, California, Vision House,
l973, p. ll5
(5) Hal Lindsey, The Apocalypse Code, Palos
Verdes, California, Western Front, l997, p. l2l
(6) Hal
Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth, London, Lakeland, l970, pp.
243-244
(7) Ibid., p. 284
(8) Jan Willem van der
Hoeven, Hitler and the Arabs, 200l in Sizer, Christian Zionism Road
Map to Armageddon, p. 242
(9) Hal Lindsey, Israel and the Last
Days, Eugene, Or., Harvest House, l983, pp. 38-39
(l0) Sizer,
Christian Zionism: Road Map to Armageddon, p. 245
(ll) Ibid.,
p. 248
(l2) Jonathan Kuttab, 'An Open Letter to the Archbishop
of Canterbury from a Palestinian Christian', christianizionism,
org/fulltext.asp?ID=23
(l3) Stephen Sizer, op. cit., pp.
202-205
(14) Sabeel Press Statement in David Parsons, Swords
into Plowshares, Jerusalem, International Christian Embassy
Jerusalem, p. l4
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Q: Given this element of fanaticism in various causes, where are the voices engaged in realistic dialogue and how can they be better heard?
A: There have been voices through the last few decades: the Peace Process involves steps toward a solution, with the Oslow Accord. In Israel the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin led to the disintegration of that peace process. There are sane, sensible, moderate voices and they are being heard, but the problem is so complicated and there are so many different voices and so many different factions, it’s hard to achieve unity. So I think there are sane and sensible Israelis, sane and sensible Palestinians, but often their voices are drowned out.
Q: I think from the Christian point of view – and there might be a dozen variations of this – that I would see there’s an ‘earthly’ Jerusalem, an actual place that exists. There is also the Biblical concept of Zion which is, as it were, the ‘heavenly’, perfect community that God establishes, which for me doesn’t actually have very much to do with the physical, earthly Jerusalem. Now, is that an Orthodox Jewish view of Jerusalem/Zion?
A: Yours is a very Christian interpretation of Zion, of ‘heavenly’ Israel. For the Jewish people, we are Israel; but there is a place, a geographical place. It is our ancient home, and it has always been central for Jews: the land of Israel. We had that land, we were a people, a nation state with our own country, for a thousand years, though we were ruled over by other people. But it was our land we were inhabiting.
Then for two thousand years we didn’t have that land, but we did believe for two thousand years that eventually, when the Messiah comes, we would return. He would bring back all of us to Zion. He would resurrect the dead, so we would re-gather there, the resurrected and those alive, and we would enjoy the Messianic kingdom for a thousand years. But it would all happen in a place, so even for the Orthodox there was a belief that we would return eventually to the land of Israel; not to a heavenly Jerusalem but to Jerusalem and the temple would be physically rebuilt and the sacrificial system would be physically reconstituted and we would be ruled over by the Messiah.
So for the Jews, Israel has been vital in our self-understanding and for secular Zionists the belief that we must have a state of our own was fundamental to our conviction that only by having a state of our own would we be able to overcome anti-Semitism and overcome prejudice. Two aspirations, religious and secular, flow together in the creation of a state of Israel. So a place is important, it always has been, for four thousand years.
Q: I’m very interested in that concept of place. Sometimes when there’s a historic site that is being trampled by tourists, it’s possible to create a duplicate; but in the case of a land a duplicate will not do. It has to be that very particular place for both Jews and Arabs.
A: I should tell you that in the latter part of the 19th century, the Zionists who gathered together were a minority group. They gathered together believing that there must be a homeland; that we as a Jewish people must have a state of our own. The majority view, well, really, the universal view, was that it must be in the Middle East, it must be our ancient homeland.
But a practical suggestion was that the state of Israel should first be founded in Uganda, because Uganda was offered as a place for a Jewish state by the British Government. Theodore Hertz, the father of modern Zionism, advocated Uganda as a first stage and the majority of those Zionists who gathered at the 6th Zionist Congress (1903) approved that plan, called the Uganda Plan. But the Russian Zionists were deeply opposed to the Uganda Plan, saying ‘You can’t have Israel outside of the Middle East, and you certainly can’t have it in Uganda’. They walked out of the conference and at the next conference that plan was rejected. So there was a suggestion that we have a Jewish state somewhere else, and perhaps it would have been better if Israel had been in wild Wales. It is rather unpopulated, and Wales would have been an incredibly important place, prospering with that fantastic university. It would have been wonderful, but it wasn’t a Jewish aspiration.
Q: We can see your case that Christian Zionists are, for example, demonising Islam. Are we in danger of demonising the Christians who support Israel?
A: I certainly don’t want to demonise Christian Zionists. You can tell I’m critical of Christian Zionists, even though Christian Zionists support Israel. I’m critical of their views theologically and I’m critical of their political stance, because I don’t think they should demonise Islam. I think that’s totally misguided. I think their theology is entirely wrong; but I don’t want to demonise them. I want to disagree with them.
Q: And that brings us back to the question we touched on, as to whether it is possible to engage in constructive dialogue with people of a fanatical mentality.
A: I think it’s difficult to engage in dialogue with the most moderate! To give you an example, a colleague of mine, Dawoud El-Alami, (who is from a distinguished Palestinian family) and I wrote a book together, called ‘The Palestinian-Israeli Conflict’. In the first half of the book I give the Jewish perspective on the creation of the state of Israel and in the second half he gives an Islamic, or Muslim, perspective on the creation of Israel and what he regards as Palestine. We are friends, but at the end of the book we have a debate, and it’s quite clear from the debate we don’t agree about anything. We are friendly, but we can’t discuss the issue. We can write about it from our own points of view, but when we discuss it, when we debate it, there’s no mediation. There is no point of contact, only frustration and anger and misunderstanding.
I’ve never discussed the issue of Palestine-Israel with someone who is really fanatical; but if I have difficulties with a person who is as moderate as possible, then it is impossible with someone who stands on the opposite side with totally diametrically opposed presuppositions and is willing to engage in violence.